God in Three Persons 2020, courtesy of the Cryptic Corporation
Next month, the Residents will perform their 1988 narrative album God in Three Persons at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. The show will combine new video projections by the artist John Sanborn with a live performance by the Residents and vocalist Laurie Amat, whose contributions to the original LP are memorable.
Homer Flynn, the president of the Cryptic Corporation, has handled the Residents’ affairs since the 1970s. I called him just before Thanksgiving, interrupting his graphic design work on an upcoming release involving the Mysterious N. Senada to pepper him with questions about the Residents’ next moves.
Dangerous Minds: Has God in Three Persons ever been performed in front of an audience before?
Homer Flynn: Well, not in the way that it’s being done now, I’ll put it that way. You know, the Residents always felt that God in Three Persons was probably the thing that they had done that most lent itself into being expanded into more of a theatrical-slash-visual form. And one way or another, they’ve kind of worked around with that for some time now. But what happened was that they made contact with a producer, a guy named Steve Saporito in New York, and, you know, one of the Residents did a solo performance, I don’t know, seven or eight years ago, in San Francisco and New York. It was called “Sam’s Enchanted Evening.” And Steve, that producer, was the one responsible for getting that to New York, and afterwards he asks, “Well, what else are you interested in doing?” And the first thing in the meeting that came up was God in Three Persons. And so, in a lot of ways, that kind of picked up the energy, in that way.
But they did a reading of God in Three Persons for ACT, the American Conservatory Theater, which is a very well-established theater in San Francisco, and that happened, I think, a little over two years ago or a little over three years ago. They got some interest at that, but then the woman who was the artistic director left, and there was a big changeover. And they are still interested, but meanwhile, in between, they’d also been talking to the Museum of Modern Art, and the interest really started picking up there, so the energy started going in that direction.
So in answer to your question, they did do a reading of it at ACT about three years ago; they also worked with an American classical composer and conductor who was doing a museum show at a contemporary art museum in Rotterdam, and they performed some pieces of it with him as part of a museum installation. And then they did some more pieces of it at a performance in Bourges, France, just this past April. So they’ve done pieces of it here and there, but they’ve never done anything nearly as extensive or ambitious as what they’re doing now.
Homer Flynn, courtesy of the Cryptic Corporation
Can you tell me how it compares to the original touring show that was planned? I don’t know how far along that got.
You know, that really didn’t get very far. They had some conversations with BAM, the Brooklyn Academy of Music, oh, back in the late Eighties, about potentially doing God in Three Persons with them. But ultimately, what happened was that, one, they felt like they were not gonna be able to do justice to it in a touring scenario, and then also, two, before anything could happen, they completed their King & Eye album, you know, which was all Elvis covers, and they just felt like that was gonna lend itself much more to touring than God in Three Persons. So at that point they kinda dropped God in Three Persons as a performing piece and moved towards The King & Eye, which ultimately became their Cube-E tour. That was probably about ‘89.
It would probably have been harder in a number of ways to stage God in Three Persons in ‘89. For one thing, you have the video doing some of the work in this version—
Absolutely.
—but also the content. The end, I find it hard to imagine taking that on the road with the ending it has, which I think is still pretty shocking, actually.
Yeah. Well, in some ways, it almost seems like it’s more shocking now than it was then. But it also feels, in a lot of ways, you know, the whole idea of the twins being very gender-fluid—you know, that idea was kind of completely off the charts, at that point, and now it actually feels very much in line with the times, in a lot of ways.
Is [genderqueer porn star] Jiz Lee playing both of the twins?
Yes. Right. Correct. There are a few shots that John did where he brought in another one, another person that looked very similar to Jiz, so there would be some times when both of ‘em were in the frame, and he wasn’t having to do video doubling or whatever. But for the most part, Jiz plays both twins.
‘Holy Kiss of Flesh,’ the ‘almost danceable’ single version of ‘Kiss of Flesh’ (via Discogs)
I have a sense that the story of God in Three Persons is about show business, more than anything else, and I wonder if the Residents see it that way.
Well, it’s interesting that you would say that. How do you make that connection?
Maybe the horrible celebrity environment we live in has just permeated every last fold of my brain. There’s something about the Colonel Parker aspect of Mr. X, and the road show, freak show aspect of the story.
Well, it’s interesting you would say that, especially given the fact that Cube-E, you know, The King & Eye, with Elvis and the obvious Colonel Parker connection, and then Freak Show were the next few things that came after that.
Right. Elvis is a thread, in a way.
In a way, yeah. The Residents—well, they’ve always found connections in, shall we say, unpredictable ways.
One of the things that’s interesting about seeing what the Residents are gonna do at MoMA is, with this piece, the lyrics carry so much of the story, it seems like there would be a lot of really interesting staging decisions. At some places what’s happening in the lyrics is really explicit, and in other places, I’m not exactly sure what’s going on in the story. Can you tell me about the staging?
In the same way that the original piece is really a monologue set to music, the staging will be similar, but there will be other performers. The primary additional performer will be a shadow Mr. X, who will be a dancer that, at times, will be like a kind of a doppelgänger, in a way, echoing Mr. X. And then, other times, there will be three projections in the performance. One will be the primary projection which will go all the way across the back of the stage. But then there will be another narrow vertical screen that will kind of come up and down, and it will bisect that larger screen. And then there will be a third screen that the shadow Mr. X will carry, at times, and then there will be another performer holding a hand-held projector, in order to project upon the hand-held screen. So that’s the basic setup, from a performance point of view. And then, of course, all the music will be live.
Staging Mr. X with a double: I can’t help but make the connection with the songs that inspired the album: “Double Shot,” which is two, and “Holy, Holy, Holy,” which is about the Trinity. And that’s kind of what the story is about, right?
Right, exactly. Yeah. But, you know, the Residents kind of love dualities, and you see dualities reoccuring throughout their pieces all the time. The twins are a certain duality, and Mr. X and the shadow Mr. X become another duality, and there’s probably other ones in the same piece, too. It all kinda fits in with the Residents’ world.
The Residents’ 1988 ‘Double Shot’ single (via Discogs)
Can you talk a little bit about what “Double Shot” meant to the Residents? I thought it was interesting that, after having been on Third Reich ‘n’ Roll, it pops back up in this context. Can you speculate on what it is about that song?
I think there’s several things there. First off, it’s catchy as hell. Secondly, so much of the weight of the music goes into “Holy, Holy, Holy,” you know, “God in three persons, blessed Trinity.” And they like that. The Residents were raised as Protestants; none of them are particularly practicing at this point, but at the same time, it was part of their heritage, part of their makeup, and they really liked the idea of bringing that in. But then they wanted something to kind of counterbalance that. And “Double Shot” then becomes the perfect counterbalance, and then you create this nice tension between the staid, formal melody of “Holy, Holy, Holy” and the ultimate frat pop song of “Double Shot.” And then, of course, the “double shot” echoes the twins at the same time.
Is there anything else you wanted to tell me about this particular show?
Actually, the Residents are just incredibly pleased and satisfied and grateful to be having this opportunity to present the show in this format, and they are very hopeful that it will then continue to travel to other museums and potentially theaters afterwards. They really feel like this is what they’ve wanted to do with this piece all along. It’s a little surprising that it took 30 years [laughs] for it to get there, but at the same time, well, you know, maybe its time wasn’t ripe until now.
Are these shows going to be filmed and recorded?
They will be recorded. As I understand it, the Museum of Modern Art, they have like a three-camera setup that will be shooting stuff, and the Residents, or their producers, will be bringing in two or three more cameras. So ultimately, I think there will be either five or six cameras shooting all three performances, so we should be able to get something good out of it.
The Residents present Alvin Snow, aka Dyin’ Dog (via Psychofon Records)
What can you tell me about the Dog Stab tour that’s starting a few months later?
Have you been following the Residents’ Dyin’ Dog?
I didn’t get the singles, but I know the story a little bit.
Well, ultimately what happened was that, when the Residents were working with Don Hardy, who was the filmmaker that did Theory of Obscurity, I was the person who was really the sort of facilitator for Don on the Residents and Cryptic side, and I connected Don with a lot of people. A lot of the talking heads that you see in the film were people that I connected him with. One of those people was a guy named Roland Sheehan. If you remember, in the film, right near the beginning, there’s an old guy playing a Hammond organ in a cabin out in the woods somewhere. It’s a fairly memorable scene. This was Roland Sheehan. Roland was a friend of the Residents back in Louisiana, before they came to San Francisco, and he also was very instrumental in their formation. He came—they were living in San Mateo at that time, which was about 25 or 30 miles south of San Francisco, and he came and stayed with them for the summer, brought that same Hammond organ out for the summer, along with a lot of other musical instruments.
Around that same time, one of the Residents was given a tape recorder. It was a really early… it was stereo, but it was referred to as “sound on sound,” at that time. You could record the two channels separately, and then mix ‘em together, and then record one, and mix that, and record—it was a very crude, but functional, kind of multitrack recorder. I think that was around the summer of 1970. And the reality was that all these instruments, along with the tape recorder, and a lot of free time, certain amount of drugs, all kind of came together in a way to start the Residents doing a lot of experimental recordings.
At the end of that summer, Roland left and went back home. And, ultimately, they decided, “This is fun! We like this. We’re gonna go out and buy our own instruments, and we’re gonna continue.” But meanwhile, they stayed connected to Roland, and over the years, they had always had an idea of doing some kind of a blues-based album, but at the same time, they were having a hard time finding what they considered the entry point for that album. Just doing covers of a bunch of B.B. King songs, or Howlin’ Wolf songs, or whatever—that just didn’t seem like enough.
And so, at one point, I don’t know, just a few years ago, they had reconnected with Roland, one of them was back in Louisiana, was having lunch with Roland, and they mentioned this idea of doing a blues thing, but they couldn’t find a way into it, and whatever. And so, ultimately, this kinda struck a chord with Roland, and what had happened was that, a few years after he had worked with the Residents that summer, helping them get started—[cuts out]—a musician in western Louisiana, a guy named Alvin Snow. And Alvin was a wannabe blues singer, and so, Roland was very taken by Alvin, and ultimately, he wound up putting a band together, and they recorded some demos, and Alvin was very much taken by Howlin’ Wolf, and very much influenced by him.
What happened was, they were getting ready to do the first gig, with Alvin and his band, and he found out that Howlin’ Wolf had died, and he just disappeared. And that was kind of the end of that. But then, later, when the Residents mentioned this thing about a blues project, he went back and started looking, and he found these demos that he had done with Alvin back in the mid-Seventies, and played them for the Residents, and they loved ‘em. So ultimately, they took the original Dyin’ Dog demos, and they were released through Psychofon Records in Bremerhaven, Germany. And ultimately, they decided they were gonna then redo all those in their own style. And so the album, when it comes out—they’re just finishing the album right now—the album will contain two CDs: one CD will be all of the Alvin original demos, and then the other CD will be the Residents’ versions of those same songs, plus another four, five, six original songs that they did that were inspired by Alvin. And then, ultimately, that’s what will be the basis of the tour, primarily, but at the same time they’re also gonna do an extended encore of Duck Stab! material. So ultimately that’s where the “Dog Stab” comes from—the “dog” part comes from “Dyin’ Dog,” the “stab” part comes from Duck Stab! So that’s kind of a long way around of telling you what that’s all about.
Dog Stab, courtesy of the Cryptic Corporation
Homer, is there any truth to this story that the Godfather of Soul, James Brown, came to see the Residents?
Well, they crossed paths at… House of Blues in Las Vegas. And what was happening was that the Residents were playing there. I think maybe they were playing their Wormwood show there, so this would have been almost 20 years ago. And what happened was, James Brown showed up as they were doing soundcheck, because he was thinking about performing there too, and he was checking out the venue. Essentially, they just wound up having a chat with James during a break in their soundcheck.
I wonder if he was aware of the “It’s a Man’s Man’s Man’s World” cover and single.
You know, I have no idea, but honestly, I would be surprised if he was aware of it. But he could have been, I don’t know.
You mentioned doppelgängers earlier. Is there any news about Double Trouble?
There’s no specific news. The reality is that everybody says these things take a long time, and as one of the people that’s tried to put this thing together, I’m saying, “Yep! That’s right. It takes a long time.” But ultimately it’s a matter—[cuts out]—I’ve found some financing for the Residents. At this point, it’s scheduled to shoot in the summer of 2020. There’s still a lot of money to raise. At this point, roughly half the money’s been raised. So, everybody’s pretty optimistic about it, but at the same time, it’s not a done deal until you’ve got all the money, obviously.
The Residents grocery shopping, 1978 (via residents.com)
Oddly enough, I interviewed Hardy Fox 10 years ago. We talked about the Residents’ hopes for technology, and he told me that the Residents had always wanted to make a piece of music that would cause a spontaneous orgasm in everybody who heard it, and that they had at one time hoped to do things with holograms. Are there any exciting toys the Residents are playing with? Are they likely to do anything with virtual reality or holograms?
Well, they are actually working on a very interesting 360 video project right now. It’s not exactly virtual reality, but it’s kinda practically virtual reality.
What happened was, they did a performance a little over a year ago as kind of a promotional thing at a book fair in San Francisco, and some guys came in, and they said, “Hey, is it okay if we shoot this with a 360 camera?” And, you know, the Residents said “Sure.”
And then at some point later, these people had everybody over to look at the video, and the video was pretty amazing. This camera, which is a high-resolution 360 camera—I mean it almost looks like a broomstick that sits on, like, a little kid’s tank that’s remote-controlled. And so somebody just kinda steers this thing around while it does the 360 video of whatever environment it’s in, and it was so close to the band that when you watch this, you almost feel like you’re in the band. And that is very cool.
But the thing is, when you put the headset on, and you turn and you look around, well, as you look around, you see the entire venue, you see the audience—and that’s interesting for, you know, 30 seconds or maybe a minute, but it doesn’t really hold your interest very much. So ultimately the idea that came up was to work with three different artists who would then go in and completely replace the venue and the audience with a world that those artists would create.
Oh, wow!
So you still have the Residents performing within this world, but each world is completely unique and kind of its own thing. So they’re kinda wrapping that up right now, and what we’re trying to do is get that into South by Southwest as kind of a special event, and there could wind up being a Residents performance along with that. [cuts out] It could wind up being something that’s shown along with God in Three Persons as kind of a standalone piece to go with that. So that’s the kind of thing that they’ve been working on lately that’s more cutting-edge.
The Residents for ‘Santa Dog ‘78’ (via residents.com)
Anything in the world of music technology? Recording? Performance? Anything new and different?
Well, probably the most new and different thing is, really, the God in Three Persons working with John Sanborn. I mean, this is the first time that they’ve really done anything nearly this extensive with someone creating projections or videos, that’s this ambitious and detailed to go along with something that they’ve done.
I mean, they’ve had a lot of ideas for doing things like this, but at the same time… You know, they did an album about three years ago called The Ghost of Hope. It was all about train wrecks, and they were kind of really wanting to be able do a very ambitious video component to go along with that, that would be all of these train wreck stories, ‘cause each one of those is a story.
But at the same time, you know, it takes a lot of money to be able to back these kind of things. And then also too, you have to find the right venue. When the Residents tour these days, they’re mainly going in clubs or small theaters, and these just aren’t necessarily the correct venue to be able to do ambitious video stuff in. So, I mean, they have ideas for these things, but, once again, [laughs] it’s one thing to have the ideas, it’s something else to have the resources on any number of levels to make it work.
Can you tell me about anything coming up in the pREServed reissue campaign?
Well, the most recent thing… I think they have just released—
Not Available, which, a lot of people were quite anxious to get that. You know, they also released, really, these two pre-Resident albums, one was called The Warner Bros. Album and the other one was called Baby Sex? And they were released [as] very limited Record Store Day vinyl releases which immediately sold out.
I noticed the title “Baby Sex” didn’t appear on the Record Store Day release.
Well, neither did “Warner Bros. Album.” Both of them were a little too controversial for different reasons. But both of those are now being put together along with a lot of other archive material, some of which has never been heard before, and that’s about to come out as a two-CD set. I think it’s called A Nickle [sic] If Your Dick’s This Big?
But I think they’re also working on what’s gonna ultimately be, like, a Cube-E box set? In general, they’re kind of working through the catalog, not completely chronologically, but more or less chronologically. They’re also doing, I think, about to do an American Composers box set. So yeah, there are definitely more things in the works.
Do you know if there’s gonna be some video in some of this stuff? ‘Cause it seems like as you get into that period there’d probably be more video. Especially with Cube-E.
I’m not sure. You know, there’s not a whole lot of video of Cube-E, and what there is is pretty low-res. It’s kinda too bad ‘cause it was a very visually dynamic show, but there wasn’t a lot of video shot, and again, what was shot was pretty low-res.
There was a TV appearance around that time, right? I guess I’d always imagined that a full show had been taped.
I don’t think so. It was more excerpts, and what you’re talking about is the Night Music thing. They did about two or three songs on Night Music. But the thing is, that was NBC. Just getting the rights to that kind of stuff is not very easy.
via Exploratorium
Is there any chance of more surround mixes? I really loved what the Residents did with Eskimo for the DVD release.
I won’t say that it’s out of the question. You know, Hardy retired about two years before he died, and he was the keeper of the archive, so he turned all of that over to me, and I have been working with a guy named Scott Sanborn in Seattle who is an audio engineer. And Scott is transferring all of that stuff into very high-res formats, including a lot of the multitrack stuff.
A lot of it just comes down to whether Cherry Red and MVD feel like there’s enough of a market to be worth the money that it takes to go in and create that kind of stuff. I would love to see it happen, but it has more to do with the business side of things than anything else.
Well, Homer, thank you so much for your time. I don’t want to keep you from your dinner. Thank you for talking to me.
Sure. Sure. Yeah. And sorry for the confusion at the beginning. You know, Psychofon Records, who put out the Dyin’ Dog box set and has put out a lot of collectibles… There is a British writer who has written a biography of the Mysterious N. Senada, supposedly based on some writings that were found. So that N. Senada bio is gonna be released along with Pollex Christi, which is N. Senada’s music, in a package.
Get out of town!
Yes. So that will be released, I think, in the spring, as a kind of a bundle of the two pieces. So what I’ve actually been doing is going through a lot of old photos from back in the early Seventies to try to find a few images here and there of N. Senada and the Residents at that time and whatever, and you kinda caught me with my head deep into Photoshop.
I can’t wait to get my hands on that thing.
It’s gonna be nice. Andreas, the guy who does Psychofon, is really doing amazing stuff, and it’s really great to have those kind of people to work with.
Do you do any work with Klanggalerie?
Yeah, Walter. Walter’s another good guy. It’s kind of interesting how people have come along in the last few years that are huge supporters, and really helping to get this material out.
Richard Anderson, who is the product manager at Cherry Red, is actually responsible for the pREServed series. He’s a huge Residents fan, and he’s really the one who’s kind of carried the ball on that, and doing a fantastic job with it.
The latest releases in the pREServed series are God in Three Persons, Not Available, and A Nickle If Your Dick’s This Big, a collection of early recordings.
The Residents will perform God in Three Persons at MoMA on January 24 and January 25, 2020. Visit residents.com for Dog Stab tour dates and tickets.