Rare footage of David Johansen and Johnny Thunders discussing Sex Pistols and Tom Petty in front of CBGB’s, 1976
The New York Dolls essentially came to an end while touring Florida in 1975. A few months prior, the band was on their last legs when future Sex Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren stepped into the picture. McLaren had some insane ideas, such as re-imagining the androgynous Dolls as tongue-in-cheek Maoists. Drummer Jerry Nolan later recalled McLaren’s vision of “dressing us up in matching red leather suits and playing in front of a giant communist flag. It was so stupid!”
Nolan and guitarist Johnny Thunders quit the band and headed back to New York, forming the Heartbreakers. Their earliest gigs, with original bassist Richard Hell, were at the club that would eventually be known as the ground zero of punk: CBGB’s. As for the Dolls, vocalist David Johansen and guitarist Sylvain Sylvain recruited various musicians over the next couple of years, soldiering on until 1977 when they finally called it a day.
In the footage featured below, Johansen is seen conducting a mock interview of sorts with Thunders in front of CBGB’s. Likely recorded in the fall of 1976, the two cover a lot of ground in the brief clip. Johansen asks about the Heartbreakers’ upcoming overseas tour, which turns out to be the ill-fated Anarchy in the UK tour with the Sex Pistols.
At the time, Thunders had no idea of the ultimate fate of the outing, in which 19 shows are scheduled, though all but three are cancelled due to a backlash after the Pistols’ infamous appearance on Bill Grundy’s television program. Malcolm McLaren organised the tour, and when his name comes up, the two have a few sardonic yucks aimed at their former manager (Thunders says he’s “the neatest”). They also talk about how the Heartbreakers might have to change their name, as there’s a new band making the rounds with a similar moniker: Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.
What’s remarkable here isn’t just that Johansen and Thunders are trading jokes – it’s how they’re doing it. The sarcasm is baked in, sure, but there’s a real tenderness underneath, the kind of chemistry that only survives after you’ve crashed in a van together at 3am with no money and a stolen bag of smack. These weren’t just bandmates but co-conspirators in one of rock’s most spectacular implosions. You can see it in their eyes: they’ve already lived through the best bit, and everything else is just reruns.
The real punchline, of course, is that this version of the Heartbreakers – bruised, battered, and bumming smokes outside CBGB’s – would outlive almost everything else from that era. Forget the record sales (or lack thereof); forget the Anarchy Tour disaster. In hindsight, they look like time travellers – ghosts from the glitter apocalypse who’d somehow shown up ahead of schedule to plant a flag. And yes, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers is a lovely band name, but let’s be honest: Johnny Thunders had the better one first.
The former bandmates are seen smoking and joking like the old friends that they were already at that point. To be honest, I had no idea the pair were even on speaking terms during this period, so it’s nice to see them getting along so well (it’s worth noting that the reconstituted New York Dolls is one subject they don’t broach).
The encounter was shot with photographer Bob Gruen’s video camera and included on the New York Dolls DVD of Gruen footage, Lookin’ Fine On Television.